Ep 013 Dr. Carol Tanksley on Sexual Wholeness: Healing & Restoration of a Messy Past
In Episode 13 of the Wholly Well Journey podcast, Stephanie engages in a deep conversation with Dr. Carol Tanksley on the topic of Sexual Wholeness.
Dr. Carol, a medical doctor, ordained minister, and relationship coach, shares insights from her latest book, Sexpectations, delving into the complexities of sexuality, intimacy, and healing from sexual brokenness.
Throughout the episode, you’ll be guided through an exploration of the differences between sex and intimacy, the various forms of sexual harm individuals may experience, and the journey toward achieving sexual wholeness.
Dr. Carol also addresses the importance of ongoing transformation, forgiveness, and community support in this healing process. This episode provides a compassionate and insightful discussion on a topic often considered taboo.
Connect with Dr Carol
yoursexpectations.com - Learn more about the Sexpectations book, devotional, and other resources
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Show Notes
Please. note, show notes are automatically generated and therefore contain some grammatical errors.
Ep 13 Dr. Carol Tanksley on Sexual Wholeness: Healing and Restoration of a Messy Past
Stephanie: Dr. Carol Tanksley is a medical doctor, ordained minister relationship coach, and more, and she has just released a book called Sexpectations. Which is opening up a godly conversation into what to do with the, both the good and not so good parts of our sexual history. In this book, Dr. Carol unravels, the complexities of our anxieties, curiosity, desires, and traumas, and shares vignettes from her medical practice ministry and personal life.
That ultimately answer the question: What do I do with my messy story? And how can I pursue sexual wholeness?
We're going to have a conversation today about the journey to sexual wholeness and what that means for each individual.
I'm so happy to welcome my friend, Dr. Carol, and she's an author, speaker, and podcaster. She's a licensed OB-GYN physician and an ordained minister. She wears many hats. And she's founded Dr. Carol ministries to help people experience wholeness as God intended. And most of all, Dr. Carol, I'm thankful for you as a friend and someone I respect so greatly, and we're so glad to have you with us.
Dr Carol: thank you, Stephanie. It is such an honor and a pleasure. I consider you a dear friend as well, and you've been so helpful to me in various ways, so I'm just tickled to be here on this conversation.
Stephanie: Yes, and, and I'm excited to talk about your new book. Your new book is called Sexpectations, and when I first heard this, I thought, I've never heard that word before, but I feel like I know what it means. Can you tell us a little bit about that title, Sexpectations.
Dr Carol: Yeah. Well that word isn't original with me. It came from one of the, uh, younger people that I, I work with and I was just wrestling with what God was having me talk about, say, speak into, write about, and this whole area of the. Core part of our being around the need for intimacy and how often that has come out in sexual ways.
And, and we can unpack a little bit about the, the difference there and what that means. But that word just kind of captured it. And every time I've said, yeah, my, my book, it, it, you know, the titleless expectations, everybody just kind of, uh, wide-eyed. Oh yeah. Okay. Um, it, it just. Tweak some interest. I think that this whole topic speaks to a cultural moment that we're in. you know, love it or hate it. Sex is a big deal in our culture and to every person, so that that opens some doors, but then God wants to do through this, part of our being. I think it speaks to God's heart , as well.
Stephanie: And when we're talking about, these expectations. There's sex and then there's intimacy and they're related, but they're not the same. So can you tell us a little bit more about what, what is the difference between the two and why is intimacy so critical to understand?
Dr Carol: Uh, one of my favorite questions, I think that gets to something so important. I think we all have a pretty good idea of what we mean by sex, sexuality, but intimacy, that word has often been used as a euphemism for sex, but it really speaks to something different. if we kind of step back and think of who God is. Himself and who he made us to be. The intimacy gets to the idea of knowing and being known, seeing and being seen. I think of Genesis 2 25, the man and his wife. Adam and Eve were naked and they felt no shame. , you cannot experience intimacy just by taking the clothes off your body. This has as much, and in many ways, even more to do with the coverings over our, our minds, our our souls, and that whole area, God, Himself experiences infinite intimacy, God the Father, God the Son, and, and God, the Holy Spirit. They are so close, so intimate. I want to say that we are told to think of him as one God here O Israel the Lord. The Lord is one. He, one God, but, but three personalities. That in one sense is a picture of infinite. Intimacy. God created us as human beings in his image. God considered intimacy so core to who he was, that he could not create us in his image without creating us with the need, the desire and the capacity for intimacy, the need for seeing and being seen, knowing and being known. I think if. if. any of us just step back for a minute and consider the core longings of our hearts. That's among them. We as humans, truly need this kind of experience, the experience of intimacy, and that's regardless of gender, regardless of relationship status. This gets at something very, very deep in our being.
Stephanie: Yeah, so deep, and it's such a huge topic because we see how loneliness is becoming more and more prevalent in spite of being so connected, in spite of being able to. Get online at any time and see all these other people's opinions and their stories and, and even those who may share a lot may be still lacking in this area of intimacy.
And like you said, it's such a deep longing for connection that we have, but it also requires so much vulnerability, which can be really scary for people. Right.
Dr Carol: When we have tried to experience intimacy, when we've tried to get some of that hole in our souls filled, we have as human beings almost always gone to things that don't fill that up. I believe that's a picture of what evil. Satan originally did when human beings fell. The desire that we have for intimacy leads us like a starving man to junk food.
If the enemy offers that, it seems quick, it seems easy sometimes that's going for sex, but it can be other things too to try and fill that hole. The fake vulnerability that has become kind of, hip on social media in, in recent times I think is part of that. but that. Superficial connection doesn't meet that deep need that frankly God intended us to have ultimately filled by him and the experience that God intended for marriage, covenant, and sex and intimacy all woven together in marriage for people who are married. Evil has disrupted that we all know there's plenty of marriages where that intimacy isn't happening, whether or not sex is happening. Jesus also deeply when he was here on Earth, he needed that kind of connection with human beings. Yes, he had intimacy with his heavenly Father, but he also needed and sought connections with other human beings as messy and disruptive. And pain producing as that sometimes is. So if Jesus couldn't make it on earth without deeply connecting with other humans, as messy as that is, we're not going to get by without that. Also,
Stephanie: Yeah, no, that's very true.
And you kind of alluded to how the enemy can get in there and the, the evil that can happen in this area. And you say that all of us as human beings have been sexually harmed in some way. And how so? How, how does that harm display itself in our lives?
Dr Carol: Hmm. Um. I'm one as others do who, who believes we've all been assaulted here. Sometimes that is gross and obvious. We know some of the ways that kind of harm can come with abuse violation, uh, rape exploitation. But there's a whole lot more areas too. Um, pornography, especially early exposure to porn. , Sexualization of E even just what we might think is fun of, you know, dance or theater or or what, whatever. There's Authority figures who, even if there's no physical contact, sexualize a relationship with a person who is quote weaker or more vulnerable. There's the messages that culture has given us. it may sound kind of crass, but we live in a pornified culture where so much of sexual discipleship happens through things that are anything but godly
It trains many people. I, I would say to see that their value comes from something about their sexuality, uh, rather than who they are as, as a human. That works itself out in how people seek validation. For example, even if you haven't watched pornography yourself, the other people that you are in relationship with, almost certainly have, in marriage that's going to color what both husband and wife expect. Their physical intimacy is, is going to be like it. Tells women, for example, how they are expected to act in order to get validation or be noticed by a man. It just seeps into all of these, kinds of things. Most people, when they are working out some of these things, even if they don't realize it consciously, are either hiding behind walls. To try and keep them safe from more harm or they have no boundaries at all and are just, uh, indiscriminately and voraciously trying to get the holes in their souls filled in ways that never will satisfy. It's the junk food that the serpent offers to what we really at our core most deeply need.
Stephanie: Yeah, and there's a lot of brokenness out there, but there is also this hope for sexual wholeness. And so for all of these people who have lived in a world that, as you say, sex is always in front of us and it's ever more so at a younger and younger age,
What does it look like for a person who has lived in a lot of sexual brokenness to become sexually whole again?
Dr Carol: That might seem impossible at first. You might feel like you're just so, uh, beat up that it seems imm impossible. There's stuff that has happened to you and then there's stuff you've done in response. sexual wholeness doesn't mean that
you, .Primarily are adhering to a list of certain behaviors. the church has often made this whole area of sexuality about what's on or what's not on the sin list. that hasn't worked out very well, we have to get a bit deeper. We have to get to the matters of the heart underlying the behaviors, and that's really what Sexual Wholeness is all about. I love the title of your podcast, Stephanie Wholly. Well, this is an area that I believe God wants to integrate all the parts of us, body, mind, and soul. Some of that is finding healing from the difficult memories, the pain, the assault on our souls and bodies that so many people have experienced in the area of sexuality. It means that. You become capable of true intimacy. I have yet to work with someone who has either experienced a lot of sexual harm or, and or who has acted out sexually who doesn't have very thick and high walls around their souls, whether or not they're are taking the clothes off their body. And to deal with the walls around their heart to, learn what it's like to take those walls down in healthy ways to seek connection. With a spouse at a heart level, if you're married, to seek connection with a few other Godly people in the body of Christ, regardless of your relationship status, to be able to experience the heart connection with God. That I believe is really the core of why he created us with the need, desire, and capacity for intimacy in the first place, because he wants that kind of relationship with us. Our relationship with God is not designed to be just a checklist of behaviors you do or don't do. It's something about the matter of our hearts that God is after. Part of finding sexual wholeness is that sexuality becomes right sized in your life, in, in your being, that it's not unimportant, but that it doesn't have an importance that is above, what God really in intended it to be. Sexuality as we know it is About this earth. We are embodied beings, and every one of us is a sexual being, whether you're having sex or not, whether you love it or hate it. and so part of sexual wholeness is that that part of you becomes right sized, it's integrated with the other aspects of your being. It's not the definition of who you are, but it is not ignored. and a part of sexual wholeness, is that any, any behaviors, whether it's a addiction, to pornography or, or some other related behavior or, um, from one relationship to another, that. That kind of addiction does not rule you any longer. It may be that for somebody who has experienced a lot of sexual brokenness, this needs to be an ongoing process of continually becoming more whole. But I believe that these aspects of sexual wholeness are truly available. For anyone. It's not a snap of your fingers.
God doesn't zap us from here to there. It's a process of becoming whole, but I truly believe that those aspects are available to all of us.
Stephanie: Yeah, and wholeness doesn't mean perfection. And that's something that can be, you know, really tied into how we view sexuality, where sometimes we have so much . Imagery in our minds and even, uh, just the romantic ideas that we get from Disney movies about princesses from a young age that you see the person that you're meant to be with and you instantly fall in love with each other, both equally at the same time, and you know, then it's perfect.
And so having this ideal of perfection can be so damaging. However you might define that because your past is your past. It's a part of you, and God can redeem it. And I know another theme that you've had is the next page of your story. And so how, how do you feel that plays into saying, okay, I look at my past and I see all that has happened, but now I wanna move on to this next page of my story. And you also say that as, as important as forgiveness is, you say, that's not enough. When we're talking about sexual sin, why? Why is that?
Dr Carol: Um, I'll answer that second question first and then I do wanna talk more about story, but forgiveness. Thank God for forgiveness. That means that we are set free from behaviors, acts that we have done in the past. and Hallelujah for that. We wouldn't be able to survive without that. That is a huge gift that Jesus makes available to us just for the asking a free gift that we can just say, yes, I accept the gift and we are set free through his forgiveness. But do you really want to stay there? Let's just say that everything in your past is clean, that none of that debt is held over you. Do you really want to stay in the same condition in which Jesus found you? I don't believe any of us really do. When you stop to think of it, what is more is the process of transformation for our future. God, originally when he had you in mind in eternity past imagined something glorious and he still sees that in you when God. Thinks of you. When he sees you, he sees everything that brought you to where you are now. You didn't wake up one day and decide to have issues, sexual issues, or any other. Something brought you to where you are and Jesus sees that God, God, God sees that when he looks at you, he sees the reality of where you are now, but he also sees the glorious you that he originally designed you to be and that he is in the process of creating Or better yet, recreating you to become that process to become the fullness of who in your deepest soul you want to become and who God wants you to become. That's the process of transformation that is. Beyond forgiveness. it's, it's not that forgiveness isn't part of that, but there is an ongoing process of becoming that we all have to go through. That is where our story makes a huge, impact in, in this whole process. You have a story. You are in the middle of a story, uh, a sexual story. You have things that went into you becoming who you are sexually, the things you learned about Intimacy and sex and relationships and marriage and God and all of this before you even knew you were learning about it, you've had experiences. How did you first learn about these things? In so many words, what were your early experiences around intimacy and relationships and, you know, sex, around what are the messages you got from society? What about messages you got from church? What is true of that? What is incomplete or or distorted? So all of that from your past story goes into making you who you are now, and then Jesus wants to come into that story and change it when Jesus was here on earth. Nothing stayed the same. When Jesus showed up, uh, he would come into people's story regardless of, what their, what their mess was, rich or poor, high society, low society. Some of the outcasts were those who felt most drawn to him because everybody felt attracted. He accepted them as they were, but their story didn't say the same when they encountered Jesus. You know, blind people came to see lame legs, started to walk, deaf ears heard things that were dead, came to life. If death was not a barrier when Jesus was, around whatever aspects of that are in your story, your story will change too when Jesus shows up. And that's what I'm talking about when I say the next page of your story. If you make the decision to allow Jesus to come into the middle of your story, the next page is going to be different. It can't help but be different when you invite Jesus to show up.
Stephanie: Yeah. And I love what you said about the becoming. The transformation when Jesus shows up, because sometimes we see that in a very linear way. Like one time he shows up and I give my life to him, and then I go on. But it's continuing to meet with Jesus and continuing to work out that story with him and, and so where would someone start in talking through their sexual story with the Lord?
Dr Carol: I believe the first invitation is to show up and say yes, that you show up in the presence of God and invite him to be present right where you are right now. for some people that is a dramatic conversion experience, but I'm just gonna talk to the, the listeners who maybe you've, maybe you've been in church, maybe you can point to a time when you said yes to Jesus, but your story is still messy and you feel the pull of the Holy Spirit saying, this is something I need to deal with. I think of. The story in John four, the woman at the well, Jesus is sitting at the well. She comes in the middle of the day. Jesus offers her living water. Uh, it, it, it's a almost too good to be true offer. She says, yes, give me this water. Jesus seems to change the subject. And he says, go call your husband. She says, I don't have one. Jesus says, you're right. You don't. You've had five and the one you're now with isn't your husband. That wasn't condemnation. That was Jesus saying, I see you. This is where you're stuck. This is what we need to deal with. So for somebody who feels a pull to, to start taking a, a step in the middle of all this, it's, okay, Jesus, this is where I am. I feel stuck. Just come right where I, I'm showing up and I'm gonna choose to say yes to the next step. Maybe that next step is to. Talk to Jesus about the things that you have been ashamed about. Maybe he invites you to tell your story to another human being. I believe for everybody that needs to be one of the steps. so you show up and you say yes to that invitation that, okay, Jesus, here, here, here's where I am. I'm, inviting you right into the middle of this mess.
Stephanie: Yeah, because we all have a mess. Our lives are all messy. No matter what we think about someone else and how they appear from the outside, we all have a mess that we're working through together. And, and so to kind of talk about this from the angle of the church, like Big C Church, big picture, the conversation that we have, because you know, the sex talk is awkward.
When you're talking about parenting for your kids, for whoever it is, but it seems to be especially awkward in church, and I think sometimes in churches, maybe you have in February a relationship series around the Valentine's Day and maybe there's a sermon about it, you know? But it's typically not more than once a year if that, that we're really mentioning this subject in church, you know, how can churches have a healthy conversation on this topic?
Dr Carol: Great question. I would encourage anybody who's part of a, local community of the family of God, to see what are we doing to help people pursue intimacy that may mean, um. A totally different way of engaging unmarried people in the church. I think that is a particularly sore spot, for many singles in, in the family of God. can we talk about those? Matters in the heart. Uh, not just talk about the behaviors, but where a behavior's coming from. and when we talk about marriage, what's the point? Uh, walk into many Christian churches on Sunday morning and Ask, don't listen to what's being said, but just the way things are done. Who is this for? Many churches would give the impression that this is for people who are married with kids. it's for families, it you're not married. Um, and sometimes even if you're married, but without kids, is, is this really the place I'm supposed to be? I am not for one, split second saying that ministering to families. Married with kids is unimportant. That's the future and the gospel needs to be for everybody. So let's talk about, how we're dealing with those empty places in our heart. I think more than necessarily only from the pulpit, we need to be fostering these conversations in small groups. The way small groups are typically done in most churches that I have been connected with, just barely touches the surface of addressing these matters of the heart.
You have a six week or an eight week, you know, book study. Okay. But that doesn't really help people come to be seen and known. It doesn't really touch that empty place with the core desire and need we have for intimacy. So for those who speak. Teach or preach, talk about the need for intimacy that we have in the deep part of our souls relate to, to the total story of God. The whole Bible is the story originally of intimacy created in the garden. The last two chapters of Revelation, intimacy restored, and the whole rest of the Bible is intimacy gone wrong? Relate. That need in our hearts to the whole story of God. And we could spend another podcast talking about all the biblical illusions to the, to these things. And then foster places and ways where individual Christians can feel seen and known by others in the body of Christ. I firmly believe that needs to be with a few people over a long period of time. Some people, Dr. Kurt Thompson calls that confessional communities there could, the, the label isn't important. The point is that this isn't information. This is letting the deep places in your heart be seen by a few others, and then you offer the same to them. And. you hang out with each other. In other words, you persist just because I have a struggle or just because you have a struggle. It doesn't mean we turn our backs on each other. We keep walking through these things together, pursuing, being seen and known.
Stephanie: That's so good. And it goes all the way back to that intimacy again. And intimacy. We're not just talking about our sexual intimacy, our intimacy with one partner, but intimacy and friendship in, in all of our relationships. And, uh, but not having that deep intimacy necessarily with every person we meet the need for a sacred few for really those friendships in our lives.
Dr Carol: Um, Jesus loved everyone equally. but he didn't invest in everyone equally. He had favorites. , I say that respectfully, but he had the 12 and then he had Peter, James, and John. Who is your Peter, James and John. Who is your Mary, Martha, and Lazarus. Jesus definitely invested much more of himself in those few. Who is in your world in that way? When I talk to somebody who's struggling with sexual issues, regardless of whether they're married or not, one of the most important things I tell them is find a friend. if you're married, you need one or a few. Same-sex friends beyond your marriage, not to replace your spouse, but no one other human being can fill you up.
You need a few, you need a few who. You talk together about the things you don't wanna talk about. They're up in your business. They know what's going on with you. They ask you the hard questions. They challenge you, they encourage you, they pray with you. There's kind of been a cliche in the, in the Christian Church, okay, doing life together, but that, that cliche really does speak to something important. We need a few. We need our Peter, James, and Johns to go through life together.
Stephanie: And that's such a good takeaway for people as they come out of this conversation, and I know we have just . Barely scratch the surface on such a huge topic, and some people maybe have not felt comfortable really opening up in this area. And so this is just gonna be a beginning for them of starting to dive in.
And we'd love to hear more about where people can find you, what kind of resources you have available, and how can they connect with Dr. Carol Ministries.
Dr Carol: so much, Stephanie. Our main website is dr carol ministries.com, D-R-C-A-R-O-L ministries.com. You can find my blog articles every week. We have a weekly podcast and then we have a special place around things for intimacy and sexuality. yoursexpectations.com. yoursexpectations.com. There you'll find information about my book that's being released, expectations reframing your good and not so good stories about God, love and relationships, and you'll find other places where you can get specific input in this area. we've got a 30 day Email devotional series towards sexual wholeness. Got a a, a quiz there, a downloadable your five part prescription for sexual healing God's Way, and then just articles and podcast episodes about this topic specifically. So either of those sites, I would particularly encourage your sex expectations.com, and there's a place where you can leave me a confidential message there. I'd just be delighted to have. Folks come over and, uh, connect with us.
Stephanie: Yeah, we'll definitely leave those links in the description and in the show notes. And Dr. Carol, I thank you so much for your time today. Uh, could we just close out, could you say a little closing prayer over everybody who's
listening? Yes. Oh, heavenly Father, Lord Jesus. Holy Spirit. Talking about these matters of the heart opens up some deep places, and some of that comes with a lot of pain or anxiety or shame. Um, it also stirs up desire that the longings that we have, that feel, um, unfulfilled. And Lord, I would just pray that for each one listening, they sense your invitation to bring this stuff out into the light before you. and with a few others in the body of Christ that each person feels the invitation to, to show up and say yes just to one next step at a time that you are the safe place to deal with all of this around these deep matters in our heart. Lord, I ask that your Holy Spirit continue to do your transforming work in all of us today and each day to come.
Dr Carol: And we thank you. Amen.
Stephanie: Thank you so much.
Dr Carol: pleasure.
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